The Missing 2:30 & DeeDee’s Testimony

by Dan Linehan on April 4, 2012

in Editorial

Shooting scene

Media outlets have been reporting on a “missing minute” in the Trayvon Martin case, between when George Zimmerman’s original phone call to police ends and when 911 calls from Zimmerman and Martin fighting start coming in.

There’s actually considerably more than a minute missing during that time.

This is due to widespread confusion about when Zimmerman placed his original call to police. Many write-ups claim his call began at 7:11, which is incorrect.

At 7:11 p.m., Zimmerman, who was in his truck, spotted Trayvon. There had been a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood attributed to young black men, and Zimmerman was wary of someone he did not recognize walking along the path that goes through the back of the townhouses, his father later told a local TV station.

7:11:12 is the time that the ticket notes were first saved at the dispatching center, but Zimmerman’s call connected at 7:09:34, two minutes earlier.

Here’s the connection time:

Zimmerman's call notes

[Full-size version]

With a review of notes saved further down, we can confirm a 7:09 contact time for Zimmerman’s call to police.

At 7:11:59, the dispatcher writes an update that the subject is running away. This event wasn’t reported by Zimmerman until more than two minutes into his call. The dispatcher could not have saved that update after only forty-seven seconds.

Using the proper connection time for Zimmerman’s call, we see that note being saved two and a half minutes in, exactly when we would expect it to be there.

Timeline of events

Here’s Zimmerman’s call to police with proper timing synced.

And a map of the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex.

Retreat at Twin Lakes Map

[Full-size version]

As I’ve written about previously, Trayvon Martin had plenty of time to make it back to his temporary residence, Brandy Green’s townhouse, if he had wanted to.

Position [F], where Martin’s shooting occurred, is only 35 yards from where Zimmerman’s truck was parked [C], and only 70 yards from Brandy Green’s townhouse [D]. It would only take Trayvon around 30 seconds to jog that distance, less if he actually ran.

Until now, it has been somewhat of a mystery why Martin never made it back to Brandy Green’s townhouse when he was so close, and how he and Zimmerman ended up at position [F], so close to Zimmerman’s truck.

Had Martin jogged straight to Brandy Green’s when George Zimmerman first reported him running at 7:11:42, he would have been there by 7:12:12. Considerably before Zimmerman could even finish giving police directions to the complex.

Here’s an estimate of Trayvon’s route back to Brandy Green’s townhouse:

Trayvon Martin's Route

This has baffled the police investigating the case as well. They couldn’t figure out why Trayvon didn’t simply go to Brandy Green’s if he felt threatened, especially when he was so close. All reports had indicated he was heading that direction.

7:12:30

At a safe distance from Zimmerman, near the rear entrance of the complex, Trayvon receives a call from his girlfriend DeeDee.

Most cellular providers round down the seconds at the start of a call. We see a phone call from DeeDee that began at 7:12pm, but it could have began anytime between 7:12:00 – 7:12:59.

Trayvon's call logs

Rather than simply going inside Brandy Green’s townhouse, talking to DeeDee seems to have given Trayvon some motivation to double back and confront George Zimmerman.

We’ve seen several pictures now of Trayvon on social media that would lead us to believe he wanted to look tough. It may not be much of a stretch to think he wanted to look tough for his girlfriend as well.

7:13:30

Zimmerman is wrapping up his suspicious person call and walking back towards his truck from position [E].

Trayvon is heading toward Zimmerman’s truck as well, from somewhere around position [D]. He’s still talking to DeeDee on the phone, walking quickly.

7:13:41

Zimmerman hangs up his call to police.

This marks the beginning of the “missing” two minutes and thirty seconds between the end of Zimmerman’s call to police, and the first 911 call at 7:16:11.

While we don’t know all the details of what happened during this time, we do have some information that we can reconstruct the major events with.

The first bit that helps us is from a Reuters article published yesterday.

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: “He told me Zimmerman’s story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I’m not following you.’ He rolls his car windows up.

At first take, this sounds like Martin and Zimmerman had a prior confrontation before Zimmerman’s call to police, while Zimmerman was still in his truck. But it’s pretty clear by listening to that call, Zimmerman had not yet spoken to Trayvon.

That implies Zimmerman and Martin didn’t just have one confrontation over the upcoming minutes, they had two. The first one occurring at Zimmerman’s truck at position [C]. The second one at position [F].

7:14:30

Zimmerman gets back to his SUV and is waiting for the police to arrive. Suddenly, there’s a knock at the window, it’s Trayvon.

“Why are you following me?”

“I’m not.”

Trayvon starts to walk away, then runs, between buildings. He heads towards position [F], in the backyards between the complexes, cutting south of Townhouse G to get there.

Zimmerman decides he wants to keep Martin in sight. He had already lost visual on him once. He leaves his vehicle once more and also heads towards [F], most likely via the sidewalk above [G].

Both Zimmerman’s and DeeDee’s statements seem to agree on that.

DeeDee’s account:

“Trayvon got nervous and he said he gonna run around from the back, so he ran from the back and said he had lost him,” said Dee Dee, but Martin said that, just a few seconds later, Zimmerman was behind him again.

Zimmerman’s account:

“Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building.

7:15:30

Zimmerman and Martin run into each other at position [F].

From Zimmerman’s perspective, Trayvon is waiting for him. From Trayvon’s perspective, Zimmerman had just told Trayvon that he wasn’t following him and now here he is, doing it a second time. Trayvon is likely getting fed up with it.

DeeDee’s account:

“When he saw the man behind him again he said this man is going to do something to him. And then he said this man is still behind him and I said run.”

Zimmerman’s account:

Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What’s your problem, homes?’ Zimmerman says ‘I don’t have a problem.’

7:15:40

Within ten seconds the fight has begun. DeeDee gets hung up on.

DeeDee’s account:

“Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn’t answer the phone.”

Zimmerman’s account:

Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman’s mouth and tells him to “Shut the fuck up,” and continues to pound on him.

7:16:11

The first 911 call comes in. There’s loud screaming in the background.

7:16:56

One shot is fired, after approximately a minute and fifteen seconds of fighting and screaming.

Six additional neighbors call 911.

Conclusions

The possibility that there was not just one, but two confrontations does help explain several things.

For one, why DeeDee’s testimony has seemed so confusing at times — she’s not relaying just one interaction Martin had with Zimmerman like most of us assumed, she’s bringing up two separate encounters she listened to, spaced only around a minute apart.

This description of events seems to be exactly what Zimmerman has been telling police since the beginning, since it’s essentially how the police described the incident to Tracy Martin the next day.

Trayvon still seems to have doubled back towards Zimmerman after he first started running at 7:11, but he went on to initially confront Zimmerman at his truck, rather than point [F].

None of this can tell us for sure how the fight began or who initiated physical contact.

Since it seems like Zimmerman’s main goal was to stay in touch the with police throughout the evening, it still seems unlikely that he would intentionally start any physical altercation knowing that they were on their way.

That being said, Zimmerman definitely missed an opportunity to identify himself at his truck, which potentially could have helped to de-escalate the situation.

See more crime scene maps here..

Post comment as twitter logo facebook logo
Sort: Newest | Oldest
Jeorje 133 pts

  To my ears that last scream on the tape was by a different person.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@Jeorje When I first heard the tapes I said that it was Zimmerman and I am going to still say that it is Zimmerman screaming on the tapes. Hey the state's witnesses are saying that it is Zimmerman screaming.

MovingOn 1212 pts

There Will Be A "Stand Your Ground" Hearing in the George Zimmerman Case. Now that the State has released the majority of their discovery, the defense asserts that there is clear support for a strong claim of self-defense. Consistent with this claim of self-defense, there will be a “Stand Your Ground” hearing.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 airforce_wife Very valid points.  He got his lawyer on with that analysis.  Zimmer not a man's crater of lies just gets bigger and bigger.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM you would think that Tracy Martin would know his own son's voice wouldn't you? It is in evidence that Tracy Martin stated in an interview with Serino that the voice on the call was not his son's. The FBI with all of their high tech equipment said that the recording quality was too poor to determine who was screaming.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM It is interesting how you abhor Serino when it comes to his exposure of Zimmer not a man as the phony, fake fraud that he is but then you completely embrace him when he mischaracterizes what the then utterly distraught father of the decedent said to him about a distorted recording.

 

Such is the plight of the desperate.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM You should be more concerned about this cavalcade of lies.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHSe9VA46Sk

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler It would be comical if a young person hadn't lost his life to this degenerate.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM Until the prosecution produce some evidence to prove that Zimmerman has lied, you, like me and everyone else we are just voicing our opinions.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM Please be assured that I am not embracing anyone, I am only reminding you of what is considered a part of the state's case, evidence that the state has made available.

realitycheck 1371 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler This young THUG deserved to die (as do all THUGS)

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM Yes but be complete about it Nola.  We all appreciate your enlightening us about portions of the state's case that you believe support Killerman's story, but out of a sense of fair play, at least also post the fact that Tracy Martin denies that it was said, and now uneqivocally states that it was his son't voice.

 

Was this alleged statement by Tracy Martin signed, sworn to, recorded?  You don't have to answer it because we all know the answer is no.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 realitycheck  NolaMarchChandler I am sure they feel the same way about the people's hearts they put bullets in.

 

airforce_wife 498 pts

@THEIFAM. I hope "I can't remember" works for the defense. Maybe his lack of memory comes from the uppers and downers......maxed out on his adderall dose, still. "can't remember"and needs a downer to sleep. I wonder if he has ever been evaluated by a psych doctor, or if he just gets his pills from the PA. It doesnt sound as if Adderall was working for him. I dont; nor will I ever write an Rx for those types of meds. I think docs should send the patients to psych and let them test and prescribe. Controlled substances are not to be fooled with! If you take said meds for an extended period of time you are an addict; your body is addicted........stop the meds cold turkey and see what happens........withdrawl. I have issues with a doc RXing meds like adderall and temazepam together. If the patient has insomnia that's a pretty good indicator that something needs to be changed vs throwing in a downer to counteract the upper. I will make it clear that I don't approve of pot smoking. With that being said, I will take a pot smoker over a meth user any day. These days people think its all good if you have the rx for it.......just not true!

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM Well I guess if Tracy Martin want to go back and lie about making the statement we can but him in the same boat you have put Zimmerman in.

Rowwdy 8673 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  "Well I guess if Tracy Martin want to go back and lie about making the statement we can but him in the same boat you have put Zimmerman in."

 

It wouldn't be his first lie Nola.  He has now lied 2 times about time frames and how he found out his son died.  Sybrina has also lied about that first 3 days. 

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM Yeah, but when ya know that voice-its Z.

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler 

How can you call Z a degenerate? If he were, guess what?

 

NO PERMIT. TM would never have been able to get one, had he not stupidly assaulted another human being. He thought thuggin' was cool. What a DEGENERATE!

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  realitycheck  NolaMarchChandler 

 

Only put bullets in the hearts of those who attack. Period. Nothing wrong with that.

Rowwdy 8673 pts

 patti is ticked    "NO PERMIT.

 

Exactly! 

 

TM would never have been able to get one, had he not stupidly assaulted another human being. He thought thuggin' was cool. What a DEGENERATE!"

 

He couldn't get one in any event because background checks include juvenile records.  Having TM's records sealed wouldn't stop a background check from taking place.  But then, he probably would carry illegally anyway like most thugs do.

 

 

eclecticsandra 1325 pts

 realitycheck  THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler You couldn't mean that, reality. I suggest you delete it or define THUG in a way that justifies your condemnation.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM @eclecticsandra @Rowwdy "I am not a NW nor do I or did I patrol my neighborhood reporting every black person I saw either." Well that explain why you didn't call to report suspicious persons because you not NW. Since you have never been NW it is a little hard for you to say what you would have or wouldn't have done. I could be wrong but I thought reporting suspicious persons/activities were what the NW Manual stated that residents do.

MovingOn 1212 pts

Continued.....To prove the crime of Stalking, the State of Florida must prove the following element beyond a reasonable doubt: Zimmerman willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly [followed] or [harassed] [or] [cyberstalked] Trayvon. Definitions “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose. Willfully, maliciously and repeatedly harassed Trayvon. “ What is the Intent?” Prior to the dispatcher stating, “We do not need you to that” what was Zimmerman’s reason for following Trayvon? The NW Manual reads that the person placing the call should be prepared to give the call taker certain information. The EXACT location of the suspect. Once Trayvon ran in order to be able to give the call taker the EXACT location of the suspect Zimmerman had to exit his truck in order to see where Trayvon ran to. Let us know if this guy does anything else. Again Zimmerman needs to be able to keep Trayvon in sight in order to be able to tell the call taker what Trayvon is doing. Is it reasonable to believe that Zimmerman thought that the dispatcher wanted him to keep a close eye on Trayvon? Sure it is possible that Zimmerman thought this, if Zimmerman states that he thought the dispatcher wanted him to keep a visual eye on Zimmerman who can prove any different. Once the dispatcher made his statement and Zimmerman realized that the dispatcher didn’t want him to endanger his life by following someone who could have been armed and dangerous; all following stopped and no one can prove otherwise. “serves no legitimate purpose.” While his understanding of what the dispatcher wanted may have been wrong, from Zimmerman understanding he thought the dispatcher wanted him to keep an eye on Trayvon and to report to him what Trayvon was doing; that was the legitimate purpose for following Trayvon.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler There are civil and criminal variations of the definitions.  Just because a person doesn't criminally harass or stalk an individual (and I am not in any means saying that Killerman didn't criminally do so), it doesn't mean that he didn't do it tortiously.

 

"Which way is he heading" is a world different from "Can you keep an eye on which way he is heading"  and even after he was told to stop you can hear him sloshing in the grass when he lied to the investigators and told the investigators he was walking on the concrete to get an address.

 

You of all people should be acutely sensitive to sounds.  I am surprised you didn't pick up on the obvious sound of someone walking in the grass when Killerman was on the phone 

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM you are right I haven't listened to the sound of grass. You know it could have been a little bit dripping rain that you are hearing. I have looked at the prosecution's witness list and I don't think they have an expert in sound detection on the list. I am sure that results from a sound detection test (grass expert) want be inadmissible in a court of law just as a voice stress test and the test that the two experts who decided that it wasn't Zimmerman screaming for help want be admissible.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM If you know prosecutors then you will know that nothing is fluid with them.  They will introduce as will defense counsel surprise witnesses on the eve of trial.

 

The fact that you are hoping that evidence is inadmissible so that the truth is shrouded is somewhat disturbing to me however.  You were the one who ranted and raved about the process and how it was designed to seek the truth whatever it might be.  It would seem to me that evidence that a man, who said he was walking on cement, was really walking on grass which would explain why the body was located more than a punch and a stumble away from the concrete cut through, would be important to the truth process.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM Zimmerman has already taken and passed two voice stress test, why don't we just accept the results of those tests and be done with it. Two witnesses have stated that when they first heard the arguing it appeared to be coming from the sidewalk north/west of the T. This is the sidewalk that lead back to Zimmerman truck. Both witnesses stated that they argument sounded as if it turned the corner and moved south of the T. John said that when he first looked at he saw them at the T, there flashlight, keys and cellphone were in this area. Then John said that the fight moved south of the T and ended in his grass.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM How can a fight move when it was all of one punch?  Have you ever been in a fight Nola?  It absurd to reason that they started at the cut through near the T and ended up tussling where the body was ultimately found.  There was one punch- one punch according to GZ that caused him to stumble and fall.  

 

Did he stumble 20 feet?  Please stop insulting us with this garbage.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM I haven't been in any fights, but I have seen high school students start fighting on one side of a room and end up in the hallway. I have seen them start a fight at the top of brenchers and don't stop until they are at the bottom. I am only going on what the witnesses said, I wasn't there. Not many fights are stationary. There may have been some pushing and shoving and some rolling, but the witnesses said that they saw them at the T and it ended in John's grass. Apparently you think that if the fight started at the T then Trayvon's body should have been at the T. That explains why you think that Trayvon did all of that running and Zimmerman did all of that chasing and at the end Trayvon was right were he started running.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM But to apply those observatons of high school students to this scenario you would have to reject Killerman's claim that he was knocked down as a result of  one punch.  Either he was knocked down or they scraped and tussled in a standing position.  It cannot be both.  In order for them to get that distance from where he claimed the confrontation started, his one punch and down version doesn't cut it.  No mam!!!!

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM Is it possible that the one punch did knock him to the ground and from there the rolled tussled until it ended in John's grass. John stated that they were on the ground but they moved down the sidewalk and eventually ended in his grass. If I recall correctly you indicated at one time that Trayvon may not have always been on stop, so if that was possible a little rolling and flipping no doubt took place. Maybe there will be a few jurors that have been in a few fights and they will be able to help the other jurors to see that a fight can start one place and when the fight is over the person maybe sitting there trying to figure out how in the heck did we get way over here. When two people are fighting they don't take notes so they can explain step by step of what happened. Most times even when there are eyewitnesses they get confused about how things went, who said what.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM Did GZ ever mention any rolling?

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM again the man was in a fight for his life. Zimmerman stated that he was punched somewhere around the T and was knocked to the ground, two witnesses have stated that they saw them up at the T on the ground but somehow the fight ended in John's grass. IMO the jurors will accept the statements of the witnesses because their statements supports Zimmerman statement. With two witness stating the same thing the jurors will not waste a lot of time trying to figure out how they got in John's yard. They rolled, flipped and flopped down there.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM Let me ask you this Nola.  Does O'Mara know the difference between a fight and a confrontation?

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler "THEY" didn't start.

Trayvon "started" and Z FINISHED.

Rowwdy 8673 pts

 THEIFAM "Does O'Mara know the difference between a fight and a confrontation?"

 

Did Martin?  Does that idiot Crump or the parents?  Doesn't appear so.

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler Bullshit! Z got knocked down. Probably tried to get away, and does not recall so much of that, due to shock. But what he does remember totally fits the evidence, the only evidence.

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler 

 

THEIFAM: You've managed to make it to adulthood without ONE single fight?

Rowwdy 8673 pts

 patti is ticked  "Bullshit! Z got knocked down"

 

What  the fool doesn't get is,  when you get a good punch in the nose, it stuns.  Since Martin was not only bigger, but stronger...that punch could have and mostly likely did knock Zimmerman back several feet.   He could have staggered backwards 10 feet before falling over.

 

Did Martin try to get away when he had the chance after busting Zimmerman's nose?   Nope, he sure didn't.  He stayed and pounded his head on concrete.  

 

Martin brought about his own demise because he was being a bully with an attitude.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM  eclecticsandra  Rowwdy It also says to know your neighborhood which Zimmerman did not.  He could not even name two of the three streets that encompass his neighborhood.

 

It also requires you to know who is living in the community and who isn't.  I have never have been a NW captain or served on any neighborhood watch but given the rash of crime that was plaguing that neighborhood, a system should have been implemented to insure that Killerman was only eyeballing people who didn't belong in the community.

 

Why not require visitors who are staying there for an extended period of time to where a visitor's button or sticker so that a NW or concerned neighbor would be able to distinguish them from the real bad guys.

 

All of this will of course come up in the wrongful death civil matter, and the gross negligence of the HOA in sanctioning a drug dependent buffoon like Zimmerman and in not having proper policies implemented to prevent this tragic fiasco in the first place.

eclecticsandra 1325 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler  Rowwdy One of the burglars that was apprehended was a resident of the community, so why should a distinction be made between visitors and residents? Suspicious activity should be reported no matter who is doing it.

 

"drug dependent buffoon"??? How unaware are you of behavior to realize that a lot of drugs are prescribed to help people cope with life and its challenges? I really resent that you would classify people this way. Maybe you would have a better attitude with a little pharmaceutical help.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 eclecticsandra  NolaMarchChandler  Rowwdy Because GZ made that distinction when he was questioned by Singleton.  He said that he knew that Trayvon did not stay or live in the community because he had never seen him before.

 

Had Trayvon had on a visitor's pass or some other identifying feature, the entire matter would have been avoided.  And had he not had such an identifying mark or element on him, there would have been no basis for questioning GZ's motives for suspicion.  

 

To become suspicious about a person that he later learns was walking to his father's girlfriend's house where he was staying for the past few days, means someone dropped the ball somewhere along the way.

 

My life is fine and is completely drug and alcohol free.  I have never had a problem nor had to seek intervention for either.  Nor have I ever had to depend on any drug to "cope" with life.  But if I did have to, I would be the last person on earth passing judgment on who was suspicious and acting criminal minded, when my own natural perceptions have been compromised by chemicals.

eclecticsandra 1325 pts

 THEIFAM  NolaMarchChandler  Rowwdy I think it would be strange to have visitors to a neighborhood wear passes. Maybe they should wear yellow stars. I don't think it really mattered whether he was a resident or not. When GZ started the call, he couldn't tell who he was. He wasn't even sure what race he was. He was observing the behavior. We had a neighbor who wandered around at night staring in peoples' windows. If I had seen that, I would have called the police. The woman who was being stared at took a picture of the person, and this seemed to stop the behavior.

 

It is fine that you have never had to take any drugs to cope with life, but there are many of us who do. You do not seem to have any understanding of psychiatry or psychotropic drugs. Do not judge until you understand how drugs can enhance performance.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 eclecticsandra  NolaMarchChandler  Rowwdy I see that you didn't review the statements of GZ very carefully.  He made it explicitly clear to investigator Singleton that 1) Trayvon Martin looked him dead in the eyes (which means they made eye to eye contact), 2)  that he knew that Trayvon Martin was not a resident of the the gated community, and 3)   that he knew every adult and child who lived in the gated community.   This determination was made before any phone call to the dispatcher was undertaken.  

 

Not only did he know TM was black before he called, but he also knew that he did not live there. 

 

The use and propriety of using synthetically created drugs to treat illnesses- drugs that have in many instances worse side effects than the ailment they are ingested to treat is a topic for another forum.

patti is ticked 7907 pts

 THEIFAM  eclecticsandra  NolaMarchChandler  Rowwdy Yeah, IFAM, that topic is for another forum, until YOU want to use it.

Rowwdy 8673 pts

 THEIFAM  "drugs that have in many instances worse side effects than the ailment they are ingested to treat is a topic for another forum."

 

What colossal, HYPOCRITICAL BS.  You've been using Zimmerman's meds as a weapon against him throughout this whole thread.   NOW it is for another thread? 

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM @eclecticsandra @Rowwdy I totally agree with you that some things need to implemented for the safety of the residents and for the safety of those who are visiting. As a NW it is important to know who lives in a community, the problem here was Trayvon didn't live in this community. Trayvon was walking in a community where the mode of transportation especially on a raining dark night was most like by a car. He was hanging around a building that was closed. Giving the recent problems in that community IMHO Zimmerman reactions were the reaction of any reasonable person. Zimmerman didn't say that Trayvon was a criminal he stated that his behavior was suspicious and he was behaving like he was on drugs of something. The evidence shows that Zimmerman got the last part right. Zimmerman didn't write the NW Manual, the manual defines people hanging around closed building as suspect again Zimmerman followed the NW Manual in observing Trayvon and calling the NEN. Brandi Green lived in a community where at both entrance is a Neighborhood Watch sign, numerous breakins yet she stated that she knew nothing about it. Apparently Ms. Green was not active in her neighborhood so we know that she had never attended a community meeting. Who knows in one of those meeting residents may have been encouraged to let NW know of any visitors that would be staying for a while. Apparently Tracy and Brandi just lived there and weren't involved with the community. Brandi could have said; "hey Trayvon we have had some breakins lately so if you are going out walking let me know so I can call NW and let them know that you here so they want think that you are a burgular.

THEIFAM 854 pts

 NolaMarchChandler  THEIFAM  eclecticsandra  Rowwdy All that points to a mistake on GZ's part.  Can you imagine his counsel trying to explain to a jury that his client felt justified in finding TM suspicious because he wasn't driving?

 

Having THC in your system does not mean you are on drugs Nola.  I know that you hope that we overlook such a leap in logic, but we won't.   We can't because it's that kind of logic that opens of the door for these people to think that they can do it to another TM.  We have drawn the line in the sand on this one.  And perhaps the most refreshing aspect of that line is that a large segment of white America is on our side.

 

They are fed up with fragile egoed white males and their mindless women followers who have been more exploited by them than black people have, who only get a sense of self worth by denigrating a person of another race or another sex.

MovingOn 1212 pts

@THEIFAM @eclecticsandra @Rowwdy It wasn't one thing that caused Zimmerman to view Trayvon’s behavior as suspicious it was the totality of several things, walking in a gated community, in the rain, in the dark and hanging around a building that was closed. Again Zimmerman didn’t write the NW manual, those are things that are listed in the manual. “Having THC in your system does not mean you are on drugs Nola.” What does it mean you are on vitamins? What you fell to understand THEIFAM is, it wasn’t the fact that Trayvon was walking in the rain, in the dark, hanging around a closed building or the fact that he had THC in his system, neither was it the fact that Zimmerman spotted him and followed him assuming that he was up to no good, nor was it the fact that Zimmerman left his truck that caused Trayvon to be killed. Trayvon Martin ran in the direction of the townhouse where he was temporarily residing instead of going home for some reason (and I think that DeeDee Knows) Trayvon decided to return to a location that he ran from and confronted Zimmerman. THEIFAM even if you want to believe that Zimmerman was the first aggressor we know of nothing that Zimmerman did or said that would have made Trayvon feel that his life was in imminent danger causing him to strike Zimmemran. DeeDee was on the phone until she heard the first push, she does not tell us of anything that Zimmerman did or said to Trayvon to caused Trayvon to feel that his life was being threatened.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] Don Linehan at The Wagist has a better 911 call timeline, that apparently clear up some inconsistencies in the media reporting. [...]

Previous post:

Next post: