Editor-in-Chief’s Response to the Martin / Zimmerman posts on Wagist

by Joshua Vogel on March 28, 2012

in Meta

In the past few days Wagist has been accused of irresponsible journalism, sensationalism, bigotry and racism… these charges have begun seeping outside the boundaries of this publication and into my private life. The source of the public outrage is a pair of articles written by my colleague, the man who asked me to fill the role of editor-in-chief, Dan Linehan.

While I believe that Dan has done some stellar investigating surrounding the Martin / Zimmerman shooting, I believe that the articles he’s written on the subject do not live up to the journalistic guidelines required for such an important issue. In other words: he’s dug up good evidence, but I believe he’s presented it improperly.

Dan’s articles were published without my consent, review, approval or endorsement, but as I am listed as editor-in-chief of Wagist, people could freely assume that I did support this article in its entirety. The purpose of this post is to dispel that notion, and to explain why.

Now Dan, Wagist and I, have been criticized for launching a character assassination on Trayvon Martin, and coming to the defense of alleged villain of the story, George Zimmerman. But I must preface my criticism by saying that I am certain that Dan was not acting out of malice or any particular political agenda, as has been suggested by his critics. However, I also believe that Dan, in his haste to share his discoveries, did not exhibit the journalistic standards warranted by a story as weighty as this one.

Dan posted a follow-up article today which was intended to put some of his critics at ease, but I fear it has only served to throw more fuel on the fire. And as my name is tied to Wagist masthead, I now feel obligated to respond.

Some Itemized Problems I have with the Articles:

#1) The headline “Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?” (Wagist, March 25, 2012) itself plays to the worst kind of sensationalism- an accusation in the form of a question. And while Dan found circumstantial evidence that could be interpreted as a record of an online acquaintance requesting that Martin sell some marijuana, this evidence is far from damning.

What’s more, the accusation is irrelevant. Knowing if Martin was involved with selling marijuana tells us nothing about Martin’s propensity to violence—the only aspect of his character that is relevant to the circumstances surrounding his death.

#2) The error of invoking Trayvon Martin’s appearance: the examination of his tattoos, gold teeth, etc, are also irrelevant to events surrounding his death.

#3) This error of implied guilt by association: The picture of Martin’s friend displaying what Dan identifies as a “gang sign,” has no business in any discussion of Martin’s character. Even if guilt-by-association were a legitimate tactic, it is not for us to say if this picture was intended literally or ironically. It has been advanced by some that the hand symbol in the picture isn’t a “gang sign” at all.

#4) The sin of offering an imagined narrative as something other than a hypothetical: Dan finished his first article by selecting from the evidence of the case those things which fit his scenario as Zimmerman as the victim, while omitting other evidence and testimony, including that which served to impeach his sources.
Dan states: “This is a textbook self-defense case, and I’d urge anyone reading to look at the full set of facts before drawing conclusions.” The authority and finality of that statement falls well outside the boundaries of responsible journalism.

We are in no position to presume to know with absolute certainty what events unfurled in the moments leading up to the shooting.

#5) The irresponsible invocation of Martin’s image to support the conjecture that Martin had a threatening demeanor: In Dan’s follow-up article “Misconceptions in the Trayvon Martin Case” (Wagist, March 28, 2012), Dan showed a photo of Martin with the text “Take a look at this picture of Trayvon and decide for yourself whether you would instigate a physical confrontation with him.”

Having spoken to Dan, I assure you that his intentions were only to call attention to Martin’s impressive height. However, I (and I’m sure many others) see only a thin, gangly, baby-faced kid in this photo… leaving us wide open to an accusation that Martin’s dark skin was an implied factor in our rating of how intimidating his appearance was. Such an implication is abhorrent to me, and I believe, should never have been published.

#6) In his follow-up article, Dan repeats the error alternately writing with an evenhanded voice, and switching to language that reports Zimmerman’s version of events as hard fact (e.g. “One minute he was on the phone with police, the next he was knocked down with one punch, and getting beaten incessantly,” “It was Trayvon’s voice screaming for help on the 9/11 [sic] call”, “Martin had him pinned to the ground and continued to beat him incessantly while Zimmerman was screaming for help.”) No matter how solid a case we build, it is simply poor journalism to report a conjecture as an absolute truth.

This may not be an exhaustive list of the problems in the preceding Wagist articles- you can certainly read our swollen comment section to find all the details with which our readers took issue.

It should be mentioned that at this time Wagist is not retracting evidence that Dan has gathered, but merely the narrative that was constructed to surround it.

A tragedy, particularly one that is racially charged, and has captured the attention of the nation, should have been handled with a degree of neutrality that was not displayed here.

Addendum: I want it noted that I believe that Dan’s articles did bring light to several aspects of Martin’s character that are valid, and do have a place in the public discourse. Dan did a fine job challenging the widely-held public view that Martin was a doe-eyed innocent and that Zimmerman was a racist with an itchy trigger finger. That narrative, which was adopted by most media organizations equally harmful to the quest for the truth.

Sincerely,
Joshua Vogel
Editor-in-Chief

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patti is ticked 7909 pts

MORE PROOF GZ SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ARRESTED IS IN THE FORM OF A PHOTO AND FBI DOCS AS WELL AS POLYGRAPH TRANSCRIPTS, DEPOSITIONS.

Black Racism 152 pts

If the head is split, ACQUIT (AND Arrest Crump, Fulton & Martin-and take away Corey's law license)

Raylmt 1069 pts

Team Skittles cracks me up.First you all thought George CHASED him down.<<That was funny as hell that you all thought GZ chased down 17 year old X-football player eventhough the thug had over a minute head start.Really?How does that happen?When that didnt make sense,Team Skittles then said...Well he shouldnt have got out of his truck.Number one...it's not against the law to follow a suspicious person from a distance just so you can report what you see or may not see to dispatch.GZ was out of his truck and halfway down the cut through sidewalk by the time dispatch said .."We dont need you to do that".Trayvon had plenty of time to make it home.He didnt go...instead he came from out of the darkness and asked GZ a question in an attempt to get close enough to punch his lights out.

 

 This is what I think happend.

It was raining and nobody was out,plus there was a big game about to start.It was the perfect time to be walking through lawns and scoping out the "GOOD" houses to break into..lets face it...at night..you can see into someones windows or sliding glass doors much easier than the people inside can see out.It would have been hard to notice Tray doing this by the people inside.Tray had walked through the the community on the way to the store and knew nobody was outside.Then,on the way home, Tray notices an easy mark to rob sitting in his truck.Tray walked up to GZ's truck..hand in his waistband..fronting like he had a weapon of some sort.Tray notices GZ on the phone and realizes it might not be a good idea to attack him right then.Tray runs.He then ducks into a breezeway or bushes to hide and wait on the easy mark(GZ) to come around on the way to his(GZ's) house..remember,Tray dont know who GZ is or where he lived and more than likely he assumed GZ's home was nearby.....Tray waited and watched GZ...I know he did this because Tray was cunning enough to wait til GZ ended his phone call as he was walking down the sidewalk before he confronted him(Tray might have even seen GZ put it back into his pocket).Tray asked GZ a question in an attempt to draw GZ in close enough to punch him.When GZ reached for his phone...Tray attacked him.We know GZ didnt have his gun out at the time or he wouldnt have taken an asswhippin for nearly a minute.Little did the practicing thug know...GZ had a gun.

 

You see...theres been a trend among young thugs in my city.They are hiding in bushes close to driveways for unsuspecting home owners to get home from work so they can rob them.It's the very same M.O Tray used that night on George.

                   These are the questions you really need to ask yourself

1.If Tray was scared,why didnt he go home?

 

 2.Why was he walking through lawns instead of walking on the street if he wasnt looking into peoples houses?Please dont say.."There wasnt any sidewalks" thats not a valid excuse. The road wasnt busy..there was nobody out.How many 17 year olds do you know that would rather walk through wet grass and mess their shoes up and get the bottom of their jeans wet for no good reason rather than walk on the street?Every 17 year old I've ever met takes care of their shoes because they are so expencive.It doesnt make sense to me.

 

3.Why did he walk up to Georges truck if he was scared of him?

 

4.Why didnt Tray call the police on George? If Tray was really scared, he wouldve called the police or kept running home.It would have taken less than 45 seconds for him to get home at a slow jogg..but Tray was seen running..so why wasnt he home?

 

I'll tell you why...Tray WAS up to no good...he WAS casing homes to break into until he seen an easy target sitting in his truck, alone, while everybody else was inside.Thats also why the YOUNG DAMN NEAR GROWN ADULT didnt call the police on GZ. Team skittles...I hate to break it to you but Tray was a thug and he chimped out on the wrong guy and got himself killed

 

As far as DeeDee goes...this is what I think.

 

If she could speak clearly about her so called friends last moments on earth and acted as if her testimony would make a difference then we could ALL understand her because she wouldnt be mumbling so much and unsure about what to say.If youre telling someone factual events...you dont mumble about it.

1.Why did Crump the Chump have to seek her out?

 

2.Why didnt she call his parents after hearing what she claims she heard?I'm sorry but if I was talking to one of my friends that was scared and running from someone that supposedly caught them and attacked them.I'd call somebody if I couldnt get back in touch with them.PERIOD

 

3.Why is she being so vague about the events?

 

I'll tell you why.Tray was more than likely letting her know he was about to "get a cracka".Of course we all know that youth run on this..hear no evil,see no evil and if you do...dont tell nobody"CODE" because people that repeat the evil..we all know the saying..."snitches get stitches or end up in ditches".Thats why she didnt alert anyone.

 

If Tray was really scared...really in trouble...and she thought she heard him get jumped.She wouldve at least called his parents or some other family member and told them about it.

 

Team skittles cant come up with a good excuse for NONE of these questions I asked.Tray was thug and got killed for trying to pull some thug shit on a stranger.He had the oppertunity..he wasnt from the area and knew he wouldnt be recognized by anybody and NOBODY else was out that night to witness his attack on George.When Tray ran around the corner into that courtyard he knew the coast was clear to attack George...how much do want to bet that if Tray seen someone else back there...he would still be alive because he wouldnt have attacked George if there had been a witness to it? He was out to rob GZ that night after spotting him alone in his truck.Thats the ONLY explaination that makes sense.

 

Crump coached her before anybody questioned her because he has ALOT riding on his civil cases against George,Police department and the Gated Community.He's probly got a hard on thinking about his donation fund and wondering how he can get his hands on that money after all of this is over.Then you have all the dirty little politics behind this mess.It's the Duke case all over again and you dumbasses are buying it hook,line and sinker.Small minded people you are to think that George is smart enough to premeditate a murder in less than 4 minutes and have all of the evidence match up to his self defense claim.If he was out to shoot a black kid...he could have easily  shot Tray when he walked up to his truck with his hand in his waistband trying to act like a tough guy and checking George out.George couldve said he tried to carjack him and it wouldve been overwith.Why go through all of the drama of chasing him down and shoot him? Team Skittles...none of you make sense...most of ARE racist and closed minded to the facts in front of you..the white Team Skittles players want to prove youre NOT racist so bad to black team members  that you are closed minded to the facts as well.Youre all a bunch of sad cases with no leg to stand on and grasping straws that dont hold water.Have a nice day:-)

Dedicated_Dad 15 pts

Given the heated rhetoric that's emanated from the professionally-managed "Passion of Saint Skittles" media production from the very beginning -- most of it blatantly false -- I've always considered Dan's contributions to be important counter-point.

 

If anything, those of us with "No Agenda But The Truth" hampering ourselves with political correctness has allowed the false "Saint Skittles" narrative to continue to bloom like the poisonous cess-pit it really is.

 

Don't be cowed!

 

JUSTICE FOR JORGE ZIMMERMAN!

SayItLikeItIs 735 pts

I have never seen such hatred and blatant racism as the series of blogs on Wagist has brought about. I'll give Dan one thing, apparently he is very persuasive as many have jumped on his bandwagon.  While Dan has attempted to "balance" reports in the media by launching a character assassination on Trayvon Martin based upon nothing more than hearsay (much of which he obviously obtained from media reports), speculation and innuendo, he has led many to believe that Zimmerman is innocent without benefit of access to all of the evidence.  Many here, based in large part upon Linehan's speculation and conjecture, wholeheartedly believe Zimmerman's story, and discredit anything to the contrary.  In fact, the general consensus on this site is that Zimmerman is a "hero", when it has yet to be determined whether or not he is a murderer.  As a poster below stated, "It has only led to inflame an already emotional situation and is not doing anyone any good."  

 

One has to question your integrity by allowing such to continue.  

 

And, while I am a proponent of free speech, the comments here have reached proportions beyond ridiculousness.  Have you reviewed any of the posts lately?  I've never seen such crudeness in my life, from sexual innuendos to comparing penis sizes to cursing and ranting.  Perhaps some rules or posting guidelines are needed at this point?   

skeptykal_uv_everthang 1138 pts

 SayItLikeItIs 

 

I think you have been invited to leave on more than one occasion, if you don't like the neighborhood, you don't have to visit, or live here. your choice.

rrrrottenapples 6782 pts

 skeptykal_uv_everthang good thing is it is america, like skeptykal says, and i will take a step further,

 

you dont have to read them,

 

thats the awesome thing about america,

you can choose what to read, watch, and listen to,

and what is even better, if we didnt have wagist, we'd still be back at square one, being spoon fed doctored crap from the likes of nbc/msnbc, abc, and other liberal slanted supposed media outlets.

those are the outlets you shud be calling racist, hell, one of them even supposedly fired one of their low level producers for it(nbc) for blatantly doctoring that non-emergency call of zimmerman's, specifically for the purpose of creating the racism that seems to be blamed on wagist.

 

i for one am thankful someone took the time to look this info up and present it to the people, regardless of what anyone thinks, the main stream media tried to paint a picture of treyvon, that is just absolutely false, and paing a picture of zimmerman, that is absolutely false

 

thanks to wagist, we now know, treyvon was a very very troubled guy, who had obvious issues, that stem more from either lack of proper parenting, or tha fact that treyvon just ignored for lack of respect, any authority figure in his life, its as plain as A,B,C

 

we also now know, that zimmerman is not this 200 pound monster, racist who hunted down and shot a guy in cold blood, he is the opposite, a decent guy, who had some problems, 6-7 yrs ago, but has turned it around, was a very civic minded individual, who apparently would have done just about whatever he could, for whomever he could

 

to say the actions of the likes of sharpton, jackson, NBPP, spike lee, even roseanne barr, were not the actions of black racism, is complete ignorance, and a denial of truth

 

so, to those criticizing wagist, its your right, but understand, people refuse to be blatantly lied to by our media, people refuse to be blinded by any racism, black or white, in seeking the truth of the matter

 

now, notice i did not make any claim of guilt or innocence, why? because that is for courts to decide, law enforcement to decide, and maybe, everyone should take note of that, especially for the future, and i am sure, guys like sharpton, and jackson, who make their living off of exploiting situations just like this, will do so again, the next time where we have some crime of a non-black, on a black.

Dedicated_Dad 15 pts

 rrrrottenapples THANK YOU!

After more time spent digging into the meat and marrow of this case than may really be healthy, I've arrived at the conclusion that Jorge Zimmerman - while imperfect (as is every other human on the planet) - is in fact exactly the sort of man we should all attempt to emulate!

 

When he saw injustice (the Sherman Ware case), he tried to make it right.

When he saw need (two little black boys in Orlando with no Father who needed tutoring and a positive role-model), he tried to fill it.

When crime began to plague his neighborhood, he didn't call for "somebody" to do something, *HE* stepped up and took on the burden of being the NW "Captain."

 

He did these things without regard for how they might make the powerful (SPD) angry (Ware) or even his own safety (Orlando\NW) - and he did it all without any compensation whatsoever!

 

He is obviously fond of the quote "all that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." That's nice - most of us are!

 

What separates him from the rest of us is that he didn't just repeat the quote - JORGE ZIMMERMAN GOT BUSY AND DID SOMETHING!!

 

When the 911 dispatcher said "let me know if he does anything else, OK" - followed by "which way is he running" - Jorge Zimmerman got out of his truck, AT OBVIOUS RISK TO HIS OWN SAFETY, to do what he thought was asked of him - to WATCH HIS NEIGHBORHOOD and "let [the dispatcher] know what Martin was doing, and which way he was running!!

 

What hasn't yet been (AND I'M SURE NEVER WILL BE) said in the media is this:

-- When Martin ran, he Went "toward the back entrance" - ie toward the house of Brandy Green.

 

-- When told "We don't need you to [follow], HE STOPPED - AS IS CLEAR FROM THE TAPE!! It's clear that he stopped by the dog-waste disposal, and used it to block the wind, and you can hear him tap on it with something.(I'm guessing his flashlight wasn't working as he wished, but I digress.)

 

The point is MARTIN WAS AT LEAST 100 YARDS AWAY, NEARLY "HOME" AT THIS POINT!!

 

-- TM Was found With his "photo button" and his phone's headset IN HIS POCKET! This proves BEYOND ANY DOUBT that he stopped and hid somewhere to PREPARE HIS **PRE-MEDITATED** ASSAULT ON JORGE ZIMMERMAN!!

 

-- THIS ALSO PROVES BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT MARTIN "DOUBLED BACK" OVER 100 YARDS IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF HIS SUPPOSED DESTINATION to assault Jorge - otherwise there's no possible way he could have ended up dead where he did!!

 

(Personally, I believe Martin ran because he thought Jorge was a cop, and he ran to hide his pot-stash. I'd bet a thorough search of the areas where he could have been hiding might turn it up! - but again I digress...)

 

Everything that has been done to him since then is a disgusting travesty - the sort of abuse of a GENUINE HERO that should never be tolerated in our society!

 

I believe that we should have but one rallying-cry:

 

JUSTICE FOR JORGE ZIMMERMAN!!

Rowwdy 8676 pts

 SayItLikeItIs "I have never seen such hatred and blatant racism as the series of blogs on Wagist has brought about."

 

ROFLMAO!  They can we all assume you haven't been to Moveon.org?  Daily KOS?  Global Grind?  At least this is one site that doesn't go overboard on heavy handed censorship like most sites do. 

 

"And, while I am a proponent of free speech"

 

Right!  NOT!  Only if you aren't offended.  If you don't like certain posters/post, ignore them. No one is forcing you to be here either.

eclecticsandra 1325 pts

 SayItLikeItIs I agree with much of this. I came in thinking the worst of Zimmerman. I was gradually persuaded to change my opinion and have voiced my defense of Zimmerman on pro-Trayvon blogs. Now I find myself insulted for any question I have. It is making me feel hostile to the Zimmerman defenders. I find all of my comments removed from the d'Antuono post with no explanation.

 

I'm sorry you have such a problem with your co-worker. I have seen many blogs result in bad feelings where there was a previous good working relationship.

Black Racism 152 pts

 SayItLikeItIs

Have you seen any of them calling for a bounty on the family of Trayvon?

Have you seen any of them tweet the address of the martin/Fulton family (forcing them to flee their homes in fear for their lives)?

Are you ok with the character assanination of George Zimmerman?  You are aware that there has been no conviction of George Zimmerman yet and while you are quick to assume him guilty, you do realize that we have a right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, right?

.

This case has been useful to point out racist tendencies among certain ethnic groups.  Black people are very racist and they have tried to influence this case in scummy ways from the beginning.  They stood and proclaimed him to be a innocent boy who never hurt anyone who was an academic scholar (when he was a TRUANT and his parents were more likely helping the gang banger to be a truant).

.

IF THE HEAD IS SPLIT, ACQUIT!

.

Better a wanna be cop than a wanna be gang banger any day of the week (I know, Democraps prefer wanna be gang bangers)!

JarrettTerrill 21 pts

Mr. Vogel... with friends like Dan, you certainly don't need any enemies... I am a journalist who has quit low-paying jobs over far slighter mishaps... All of your criticism against Dan's so-called "presentation" is dead-on accurate... It's propagandizing and gives false hope to racists that their ship has come in, so to speak. My advice is to distance yourself from this sort of "brietbart-like" spin as much as possible before you end up someone's scapegoat.  You've already indicated the evidence that a change must take place in order for you to keep your integrity... Go with that.

JarrettTerrill 21 pts

I have to tell you... I can't always pay my bills, but I can at least hold my head up high knowing that I've never attempted to trick my readers into believing something that wasn't true, I've never pretended not to have doubt when in fact I do and I've never deliberately withheld information from them either...  I don't think that Linehan can say the same thing at this point.

Black Racism 152 pts

 JarrettTerrill

 If the head is split, ACQUIT!

.

Trayvon was portrayed as an academic scholar (which is cool, if true), but it turns out he was more likely a habitual truant (which is ILLEGAL in the state of Florida both for the boy and his absentee parents).....YUP,  so much like the Duke Lacrosse case (all about racism these cases are, BLACK PEOPLE'S racism)!

Rowwdy 8676 pts

 JarrettTerrill "My advice is to distance yourself from this sort of "brietbart-like" spin as much as possible before you end up someone's scapegoat."

 

A journalist my ass.  You are another whining liberal.  Go somewhere where your pandering will be appreciated.

zLochnerMonster 25 pts

This is a good note from the editor, but does not change the fact that Mr. Linehan has proceeded under the assumption that Mr. Zimmerman's claims are the 100% accurate account of events that night, and he repeatedly links to a single story of a lone and anonymous "eye-witness" to prove it.There are at least a half dozen other witnesses who have come forth to the contrary.From reading these articles, it is quite clear that his conclusion has already been drawn. That is not forensic science or even journalism.

 

This website seems more dedicated to clearing Mr. Zimmerman and as you pointed out, launching a character assassination on Trayvon Martin, than actually finding out what happened that night. It has only led to inflame an already emotional situation and is not doing anyone any good.

 

I recommend you take a moment to reflect and adjust your paradigm for publication. The world would be a better place, since you do seem to otherwise have a knack for it.

 

Sincerely,

Concerned Citizen

Black Racism 152 pts

 zLochnerMonster

 Like Duke Lacrosse, there was so much outrage that anyone would dare to stand up for the Duke Lacrosse boys.  Even the strongest liberals who largely are slow to condemn someone not yet convicted of a crime are very egaer to string up Zimmerman (and pat the NEw Black panthers on the back for their brave vigilantism).

.

If vigilantism is such a  bad thing, why werent the panthers arrested in the streets when they were out in the streets publicly putting a bounty on z man?

goofey 1892 pts

 

 

These articles are listed under Editorial which is a commentary/opinion made by Editorial Staff.

 

The editor makes it clear he wants to present the other side.

 

Yes an opinion can be unbiased in theory but you would never get all people to agree that it was, therefore one can say an opinion is by nature biased.

 

 

 

 

goofey 1892 pts

Joshua your site is amazing and the majority of commentators actually care, most of the mainstream sites spew such hatred. You have a rare and wonderful place for us to spend our time. Please be joyful (and not apologetic its not needed).  

(sorry, I apologize for my poor grammar and spelling and being so sensitive.)

Black Racism 152 pts

 goofey

 The lame stream media spews hatred for white people and men (and straight people)....If GZ were white, he would have been attacked on all angles, but since he wasnt white, they had to portray him that way so he could get his dose of hate from the most racist group of all, African Americans (why are they the most racist?  I dont know, you would think they would be against judging people by the color of their skin rather than by the content of their character, but then again, they have been shunning what Dr King stood for for decades)

goofey 1892 pts

Sorry to Disagree with you Editor-in-Chief.

 

1) Trayvon's drug use and sale and suspension for possessing a pipe and empty baggie with drug residue adds to the credibility of Zimmerman not racially profiling Trayvon for being black, but because he was acting strange possibly on drugs as in the 911 call.

 

2) Trayvon was portrayed as a innocent boy just a child. His tattoo's and Gold teeth, flipping the bird, and social media page conversations proves he was a mature 17 year old hardly innocent.

 

3)  Your associations are part of your character (I urge you to look up the definition)  when he was suspended the second time and found with women's jewelry, wedding rings, diamond earrings and a burglary tool he told the officer they were not his but a friends. when asked for the friends name he refused to give the friend up.

 

4) This one does not make sense.  The statement you use is an argument against what you claim. It is a textbook Self Defense case. Meaning it fallows all the rules of claiming self defense. Then he urges anyone reading to look at the full set of facts before drawing conclusions. Meaning don't just rely on his or anyone's articles but the full set of facts make up you own mind.  This is the very definition of responsible journalism.

 

5) You are way off base and shame on you. Assuming that the readers are racist and look to the color of Trayvon's skin. Such an implication is abhorrent to me, and I believe, should never have been published.

 

The picture is of a Tall Handsome teenager and his beautiful girlfriend.

 

The words used to describe Trayvon are physical size and age when referring to the picture.  And that is all you can conclude from the picture because it is a very good picture of Trayvon.

 

This is the photo his parents should have used!!!

 

6) I disagree it has been clearly stated where there is a lack of evidence a what if is used and a open dialogue and exchange of ideals that has lead to many edits. For this I commend Dan.

 

Even though some unflattering evidence has come out about Trayvon it has clearly been stated it is not meant to make him look bad but to show he was a mature teenager not a innocent little boy. (innocent used in this context refers to maturity for those who don't know)

 

I believe you and many others are being over sensitive and there in lies the problem we have today were racism is claimed were there is none.

 

(sorry, I apologize for my poor grammar and spelling and being so sensitive.)

SusanHurt 260 pts

 goofey You completely missed the point of this statement. Your screen name is actually appropriate. The articles themselves were biased and NOT just presentations of FACTS. If the article had been posted as pure opinion, fine. But Linehan tried to present speculation, innuendo, Zimmerman's "story", etc. as fact. There was nothing impartial about the articles. 

 

HattoAquitaine 78 pts

 SusanHurt "But Linehan tried to present speculation, innuendo, Zimmerman's "story", etc. as fact."  Either that, or Linehan interpreted the evidence differently than you did.  It's stunning to see the number of baseless assertions stated as fact in the mainstream media.  Surely Dan could have been more refined in presenting his findings.  But that certainly applies ten-fold the infotainment establishment treatment of this event.

 

goofey 1892 pts

 SusanHurt 

How nice Susan as usual when some one cannot prove their point they resort to demonizing those that do not agree with them.

 

These articles are listed under Editorial which is a commentary/opinion made by Editorial Staff. 

 

I really wished people would read the articles before the made comments.

 
SusanHurt 260 pts

 goofey The pages I read said "Society"  - not Editorial. Oh well. The Special Prosecutor had her own opinion - based on REAL facts. That's all that matters.

PK408 7 pts

 SusanHurt 

You desperately need to check out the site America's wrongfully convicted. In doing so, you will learn about the great lengths prosecutors go to get a guilty verdict.  You are just the typical naive American who puts blind faith in our Justice system.  You should also watch the film "After Innocence".  I doubt you will ever again put so much emphasis in those REAL facts ever again. 

Black Racism 152 pts

 SusanHurt

 And the special prosecutor is likely to lose her license over this case just like in the duke lacrosse case, but you were eager to assume the white boys were guilty (and racist) in that case, too, right?

Conway193 1384 pts

 SusanHurt Yeah, but it sure as hell seems that Linehan's "opinions" are ACCURATE.

SusanHurt 260 pts

 Conway193 Perhaps not. Thus the second degree murder charge.

Gandydancer 10 pts

 SusanHurt The second degree murder charge is almost univerally recognized as unjustified. The Affadavit of Probable Cause is contradicted by the recording of Zimmerman's call, one of the investigators who signed it admitted under oath at the bail hearing that the prosection had no evidence for a number of statements in it, and it nonetheless does not beging to establish the elements of the charge (see Dershowitz).

Black Racism 152 pts

 SusanHurt

 INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

.

IF the head is split, ACQUIT!

Liz2 9 pts

First, we aren't a law court here, this is not about the rules of evidence. Secondly, given the extreme attacks on Zimmerman, there really needs to be more balance, and I never found the comments here so insistently demagagic and relentless like, say, the MSNBC rantings. Is it irrelevant that Martin looked more like a gansta than a nine-year old choirboy? Hardly. And so on, I could go down your list, and no matter how hypothetical the presentation, the merest suggestion, of course, influences the debate. Thus, speculation, say, about Martin doubling back might be stretching things, he might have just hidden around one of the houses off the path, but it also goes to why didn't Martin just return home? And where that home is -- given where he was first seen -- does raise the qustion about where Martin was going? Perhaps what is needed here is some overall editing of all comments as to what is hypothetical, what is established, and what is untrue. So, I read the whole business about the Skittles and how far away the 7-11 is, about the Martin lawyer first mentioning Skittles ... And I'm thinking Skittles are imaginary until I read that they're in the police report, however this is known. Well, are they? Unfortunately, following this case can be a full time job.

trapellar 608 pts

 Liz2 Can you show the link that they are in the police report? I have never seen it stated in the official police report that the skittles were on his person.

Liz2 9 pts

 trapellar No, I can't, I read it was in the police report in any number of places, but the only police report I ever read never mentioned Skittles or anything on Martin -- like even a cellphone which he was carrying presumably.  It's the one where Zimmerman's injuries are noted. 

Liz2 9 pts

 trapellar By the way, I also read that if Zimmerman goes to trial  that he can introduce relevant info about Martin, like if he was playing some gangsta role.  The comment sounded informed, mentioning only past sexual history is barred in certain trials but that anyone on trial for some killing has much more leeway.  I might have even read the comment here.  Anyways, if this is true than all of Dan's comments about Martin -- if true -- are not only relevant in general but actually are admissible in court.  Any lawyers here?   

SusanHurt 260 pts

 Liz2  trapellar If what you say is true, then the prosecution would also be able to introduce Zimmerman's history - restraining order, arrests, anger management, losing his job for "snapping" and hurting a woman, etc. They may choose NOT to open that door for rebuttal. None of it really has anything to do with what happened at that moment on that night, though.

Rowwdy 8676 pts

 SusanHurt   Zimmerman was arrested and charges were dropped.  Zimmerman went on to procure a restraining order against his ex g/f who attacked him first.That was his one and only arrest which in actuality was a detainment.

 

Zimmerman has attended a POST academy and passed.  He was also in a neighborhood watch program for 8 years without incident.  In fact he was highly praised.  He is also responsible for preventing several burglaries at his current location.

 

Don't let any facts get in your way Susan.  God forbid Zimmerman may be totally innocent.  That would definitely ruin your day.

Black Racism 152 pts

 SusanHurt

 GZ has no felony convictions (if he did, he wouldnt have been able to get a concealed weapons permit), but you knew that and lied and pretended you didnt know that or that it shouldnt count

RandallCCobb 159 pts

Editor-In-Chief:

 

Time to eat crow. An unqualified retraction is in order.

 

 

Spock1971 12 pts

 RandallCCobb I never visited this site until I found that only Wagist was putting out the most comprehensive information.  Now I'm a regular.  I'm bookmarking now.

 

Don't eat too much, it's understandable to be concerned.  I don't much trust the current people with power in government...

Spock1971 12 pts

This editorial was entirely unnecessary. 

SusanHurt 260 pts

 Spock1971 It was absolutely necessary. Unless you're of the mindset that Zimmerman (based only on HIS story) was completely innocent. What Linehan was posting was conjecture, unrelated information, and a biased view.

goofey 1892 pts

SusanHurt

Dribble

Again you obviously did not read the articles.

This site uses all the available evidence, which includes police reports, 911 calls, eyewitness statements, phone records, news reports, news articles, etc. the most complete available in one place to the public.

 

Shame on you for lying!!!

 

 

SusanHurt 260 pts

 goofey Uh huh. "Evidence" - that is then interpreted the way the writer chooses to interpret it.The Special Prosecutor found enough evidence to bring second degree murder charges - not manslaughter (which I thought might happen) - and certainly not a free pass. Goofey - shame on you for being myopic.

Rowwdy 8676 pts

 SusanHurt That fool of a prosecutor is a politician and wants votes.  There is no way she can prove 2nd degree murder. NO she doesn't have enough evidence.  She simply, carte blanche, decided to file those charges by capitulating to public pressure.

Black Racism 152 pts

 SusanHurt

 Moronic is more like it.....You can indict a ham sandwhich if you want, but that dontt make the sandwhich guilty.........

.

corey brought charges that cannot possibly be proven, but in your feable mind, having charges brought is the same as having charges proven (since you dont care if GZ is guiolty or not, you are on a witch hunt after the hero of this case)

Black Racism 152 pts

 SusanHurt

 George Zimmerman is COMPLETELY innocent (he hasnt been convicted of anything yet)!

.

And Trayvon is NOT 3 feet tall, he weighed more than 30 lbs, and the media lied about INNOCENT little trayvon more times than the black cops broke the laws in investigating this case (three black cops in the sanford PD coerced det serino to get a prosecution of george-we have bad inside actors acting on racism, but they are black, not white

AriD2385 133 pts

I don't think that the controversial articles would be as big of a deal if all of the facts really were being taking into consideration.  For instance, Martin's history is discussed, but there's no article about the implications of Zimmerman's record.  What Wagist has published has been in many ways the conservative version of the liberal mainstream media.  A lot of it is in the comments, but because the article author is actively participating in the comments as well, I believe they count.  

 

The problem with simply taking on a mission to do the opposite of what those liberal media outlets are doing is that not everyone is tuned into the liberal media.  I came to Wagist and did receive some info, but saw clearly that what was presented could never qualify as unbiased journalism.  It clearly has it's own agenda associated with it.

 

trapellar 608 pts

 AriD2385  The reason Linehan at Wagist did his own investigation into Martin's background because  the media was ONLY digging into and reporting on Zimmerman's background. There's plenty of news stories on this so go back and look at the media stories on Zimmerman's past. Nothing but the most superficial stuff about Trayvon being a good boy.

 

NO ONE in the mainstream media was investigating Trayvon's past. For the most part they were just unthinking unchallenging court stenographers for the Martin famiy lawyer.

 

Hence there was no balance in the media. Linehan has done a fine job of trying to put some balance into the reporting. Mainstream media has caught on a bit, and has attempted to look into Trayvon Martin's background since Linehan came out with this.

 

 

SusanHurt 260 pts

 trapellar His article would have been more acceptable if he had, in fact, SAID this is what has been seen, here is the flip side - point by point. At least an attempt at an unbiased list of FACTS (not Zimmerman's story, not inflammatory pictures that had NO relation to the issue at hand, etc.) would have been far more effective. And I would have had far more respect for this website.

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